You're right. I forgot the poem. I meant somewhere around 1620.

Hi Grams:

You wrote: The blood of YaHshua only forgives one of their sins and only if they believe YHWH. Anyone who doesn't believe YHWH is not affected by the spilled blood of YaHshua.

I don't know anything about getting into heaven. What I understand though about getting into the kingdom of YHWH which is currently situated in the third heaven which is the abode of YHWH and YaHshua, is that YHWH will put us into His kingdom when either its government comes to this earth or when the fullness of the kingdom comes to this earth sometime after that.

And that can only happen if a person has accepted the faith given them by YHWH, proven it to be true and has come to believe YHWH in that faith part of which is believing YHWH about the blood of YaHshua.

The blood by itself does not put us into the kingdom. We have to make a decision about it first and then believe it to the point of being willing to eliminate evil/sin from our lives and do only righteousness.

You wrote: Why Grams, its seems perhaps you have had a bit of a change of heart about works. It seems to me that you would have not discussed works at all in this regard when I first came into Fool Moon.

Rank? Our human reasoning gives us the idea that the kingdom of YHWH is about power and authority of individuals over other individuals. YaHshua roundly ridiculed the disciples against thinking that way when they argued about who would be greatest in the kingdom. YaHshua turned the tables on them saying that the servant of others, not the ruler of others, would be the greatest in the kingdom and He was the lowest of servants to ALL of mankind.

I believe the works we do during this age will have YHWH/YaHshua determine what level of responsibilities individuals will have in the service of others according to their willingness to work to the fullness of their capabilities. There will be no rank involved only assigned duties of getting on with the work of spreading the righteousness of YHWH throughout the whole of the universe beginning first at the New Jerusalem when it comes to earth with YHWH and with His kingdom.

All religious organizations claim their authority over others by taking a skewed understanding of the scriptures that they were given their authority by 'God' for one lame reason or another. In actual fact the scriptures say that the only authority that was given to anyone was the authority of YHWH being passed in a limited measure to YaHshua to rule the government of the kingdom of YHWH in the 1000 years. Humans do not have the wherewithal to handle any authority of YHWH's. It takes the FULLNESS of the Holy Spirit to have that sort of capability. At best humans are only given a small deposit of the Holy Spirit during this age, YaHshua excepted.

What does this have to do with Tobias and satanism? Hmmmmm ... OK try this. satanism will have no part in the kingdom of YHWH. I suspect, but I really don't know for sure, and it is my hope that Tobias will enter the kingdom of YHWH because, if he doesn't already, then at some point he will believe the faith that YHWH has given him, either in this age or an age to come. Same goes for everyone else who has ever, or will have ever, lived.

Exactly, but my idea of what "evil" is, is somewhat different than a Christians idea of it. To me, "evil" is the ego, and what it creates. Ego worship is not that different from Satan worship in my view.

Hello DCInC,
You say,



I as always have trouble explaining what I mean and I also figure
when your talking to people who know the bible , do know that among
other things.
But I see I cant take thing for granted.

To start out with God knows we are all sinners !
And we cant save our-self only HIS Son can .
I have also mentioned quite a few times about belief and faith and
understanding.
Again I figure a bible reader knows the basics .
Again I am taking things for granted.

The only one here who is now gone ! thinker, sorry to see him gone .
He did get me into doing more reading.

Tobias and Satanism,
Of course I am so glad to hear when people believe in GOD !
And understand , how Satan is tricking us into things .
For those of us who are not up on all of the bible, Satan can turn you into
his way of things very easy.
Satan takes the truth and adds a little lie to it, just enough to make it
believable !
And people are gullible and do believe the lies !

Rank ? I just used that at the time for lack of what to call it !
There are people that know more then I do, and yet may not be giving ?
And there are people like me with a little of this and a little of that ?
And then there are people who ? A friend we have who has moved to Fla.
to help preach. He helped every one in our church with some thing !
And I do mean every one ! He had time for every one.
Now as I see this I cant compare to him no way !!!!
So may be a different position then me ?

Did I answer ? or did I go in a circle again ?

They are exactly the same... "Ego" was the reason Lucifer fell...

We've all encountered times when our own egos have caused us problems. I know I have. I have found myself saying, "IF only it had not been for my big ego!" We learn from these mistakes and hence more enlightened...

Ah but they aren't quite the same since Christians believe that both God and Satan are separate from Man.

It has the same origin , but culture has painted it in a different way. They are the same, but different, because the idea of Satan is connected to the idea of removing personal responsibility. The Christian Satan is a more alienated/separated version of the ego than Mara is because of Western culture.

So you have a strange combinations: of feeling of being sinful, but the idea that sin doesn't come from ones ego but from a separate demon entity; a feeling of being unworthy of being God(like); a feeling of superiority based upon rewards after death.

All ego of course, but with a Western twist.

Hi Myrddin:

You wrote: I was disappointed when tatsu found it necessary to stop his participation on Fool Moon. Our discussions helped me to better understand my own faith even thought his was quite contrary to mine at the foundational level of the existence/non-existence of a Creator.

Probably the one thing I would have liked to have gone over more with him was the Buddhists' concept of ego being a major precept of that faith. tatsu attempted to put it into words for me but I hadn't been able to get my mind around it before he left. Perhaps you could fill in some blanks for me about that even though you say that you aren't at the level of Buddhism that you'd like to be.

But more to your comment. When I was a Christian I didn't dwell too much on 'evil' as a concept. It was just a word that meant 'bad' to me. In Christianity, in terms of concept, the term 'sin' was what was dwelt upon, instead of the term 'evil' in reference to the other aspects of Christianity. Since leaving Christianity and especially after those discussions with tatsu, I have been able to get a much better handle on the subject especially when it is paired up with the contrasting term of 'good'.

As I now understand it, 'good' and 'evil' are the same in that they are actions of mankind that occur as a matter of course in this physical existence. They are the essence of our lives. They determine the course of our life and our death.

I now define 'good' as all actions that bring and promote life and 'evil' as all actions that bring death. In relation to your concept of evil being the ego and the results of it, I would certainly say this covers the vast majority of how I would now define evil. But I just get this sense that ego just doesn't quite cover the whole of the aspect of evil for some reason.

For instance, something could be done just purely for reasons of lust, I think, without any necessity for ego to enter into the picture at all. This would be more likely the situation with very young children who had not yet grasped the concept of ego but certainly have the natural cravings to satisfy one's natural physical wants and needs. Unfortunately though ego isn't far behind that stage of life I have to admit. It certainly is a significant factor in the evil that occurs in this world. It's just that I don't think it is the ultimate reason for all evil. But by defining evil as all actions that result in death, that seems to me to be much more explicit and complete.

Hi Myrddin:

You wrote: This is part of what tatsu explained to me by coining the phrase 'GOODEVIL' as being all one and ironically it caused me to take the Christian/Western concept of separation and the comments of tatsu to see that while GOODEVIL was certainly all one in that it is the sum total of all of life's actions, those actions can be divided in those which cause life and those which cause death.

Now I have seen you write about how we are all one with the whole of the universe and I do understand and agree with that especially from a physical point of view especially if the concept of a Creator is not taken into account. Daresay I would probably believe that way myself if I didn't believe there was a Creator.

And that is the point of a created existence. The universe was created to give a real life first hand experience to all humans that will have ever lived what kills us and what causes us to live. It will take about 7000+ years for the Creator's plan to develop this reality show in the physical so that we can come to know exactly what is good, that which brings life, and exactly what is evil, that which brings death. When ALL have been properly 'schooled' in this ALL will have to make the choice of either accepting to be made good by the Creator, never to do evil again, or reject a life of only good and die, mercifully, for an eternity.

You wrote: I really don't remember being taught that explicitly when I was a Christian but in retrospect I see now how that was indeed the case especially with those who taught that salvation by grace was all that was needed to 'get into heaven'.

However, now I see that the scriptures speak of life only being possible in the complete and utter absence of evil in an otherwise righteous existence and that the Creator is the only one that knows what actions are necessary to maintain life because He's seen them all. He tells us that anything else is evil and brings death. Additionally, it is the Creator that is the only one who can make us righteous never to sin again but virtually no one believes the Creator about this.

But it is up to us on an individual basis, one to one with the Creator, to knowingly make the decision to accept a life of only good, or, die forever. That decision is solely our responsibility and we, ourselves individually, can only make that decision for ourselves. There will be no 'the devil made me do it' scenarios. It will be entirely our own decision. It is a life and death situation/decision.

You wrote: Yes, indeed, a strange combination. But this combination isn't scriptural unless one reads that into the scriptures ie-there are no 'rewards' but instead responsibilities.

There's an interesting book by Jeffrey Burton Russell "The Devil: Perceptions of Evil From Antiquity to Primitive Christianity" which talks about this idea of the origins of Satan and where or from whom evil originates. Read chapter 5, "Hebrew Personifications of Evil" which refers to the mal'ak and the bene ha elohim.

The book of Job has a scene in which the court of heaven have assembled before God (Yahweh)? and Satan was among them..he is then sent out to inflict pain and suffering upon Job...with God's permission. Then in l Kings 19, a lying spirit is sent to cause King Ahab to fall on Ramothgilead. Eventually in the Hebrew holy Lit., the evil mal'ak is seperated from God and seems to operate independently from Him.