As an adjunct to the warehousing of cars at the Port of Long Beach, there was also the story about recycled cardboard, paper and plastics that's usually shipped to China in order to make boxes and filling for coats and sleeping bags. China has cut back on it's orders of our trash due to lack of demand.

China imports a lot of our trash which can cause China's pollution; i.e., the burning of circuit boards to retrieve precious metals--often made in China, then returned to China for recycling into other products.

Is this an example of the affects of the financial melt-down? People, are losing their jobs--and they're not jobs that are normally thought of as directly connected to the financial markets.

I realize this can be viewed as an over-simplification of what's going on--but isn't it an indication of the wide-apread 'problems' facing us today?

Are the, possibly unanticipated, concequences of free trade plus mnon-regulation fighting against each other?

How many non-financial, non-automotive companies can be destroyed in an 'economic turn-down?'

Thanks, Aus....I mean Liz. Is it our trash that causes the pollution or is it what China does with that trash once it gets it? Is the circuit board itself the problem or is it the fact someone decided to burn it? You know, there is an environmently sound way to retrieve the resources in that board. For instance, some guys in Florida operate a recycling center where they have a machine called David that recycles these items in an environmentally friendly fashion. Indeed, David consumes more pollution than it generates.

So, I ask you again...is US trash the source of Chinese pollution or are Chinese actions the source of Chinese pollution?

Isn't China just an ideal destination for our pollution because of it's ability to absorb pollution with it's business-friendly climate? Did China create a market for recycled materials first and then decide the only way it could meet the demands was to disregard any enviromental concerns or did the demand for a pollutable climate simply make it one of the contenders for pollution intensive industries that wanted to meet profit goals that could not be maintained elsewhere?

If it's the latter I think the creation of a less intense desire for enviromental concerns would be a good way to achieve a return of domestically produced pollution at a reasonable cost to those industries who's profit is dependent on it.

Lawmage yes it is not just American trash that makes pollution high in China. Australia sells coal and iron ore to China so causes pollution in China. The Chinese should not use it but if they did not they would wreck our economy. Perhaps one day we can sell them clean minerals like uranium but even then what do we do with the waste.

Where labor is cheap , those countries will take our waste. The best thing is not to make waste in the first place.

Of course, it's what China does with the waste materials we send them, Law, which they then recycle using Australia's dirty coal and turn into toys and shoes, sleeping bags and coats for distribution around the world. It's all a part of global trade.

It only cost $3M to install David, pretty cheap for capital investment. There just aren't too many of them here in the US. Also, the company takes the scrap and resells it to...?

What I was trying to get at in the op was how many unthought of businesses are effected by the current financial melt-down, because those are the things that might probably have long-term consequences. Recycling is one that I hope won't be affected so much as to stop the recycling effort.

It's all a lot more than saving investments and mortgages.

*Chuckle*

Which brings up something else--packaging! Since consumer goods are shipped over long distances, especially to the US, they have to be packaged in certain (@#@ unopenable) ways that involve cardboard and styrofoam or other plastics. Styrofoam can't be recycled, so what are we supposed to do?

Styrofoam can indeed be recycled. Mix it with some gasoline, some real soap power, and a bit of powdered aluminum. The resulting mixture has all sorts of uses in a time of economic turmoil brought about by economic setbacks...

Do we do that in our garage, Law?

I am not sure what that recipe that is, but I think it might make something rather dangerous that the authorities wouldn't want you to have. I am basing this upon some things and chemical processes soap, aluminum powder and gasoline are related to, though the styrofoam addition is something unknown to me.

I do not suggest people experiment with these materials.