Thinker, Your latest reply seems to be an attempt to blame every evil in the world on my church.
I have ask you are you influence by Armstrong. You refuse to answer although you said to say you are not influence by Armstrong World Wide Church of God is wrong.*I have also ask for the Catholic sources you quote for people like Simon Magfus or Simon the Magician.

Therefore until you answer these questions I do not have to answer your questions.. But to show others your complete ignorance of the Catholic Church I will correct some of your errors.Your statement that It is clear from your accounts Eusebuis was a liar and therefore not a good Catholic.Although his name may be on some list of Popes, little is known of the early Popes. As the church was persecuted for the first 300 years no Bishop could really govern the universal church.

You quote part of a Catholic Enyclopedia.

The church customs has always been to commerate the death of a saint not his birth. It is only then does he reach his true new life in heaven. Of course for people who will do not know it they are not saints we are only left with their birthday in this life.The case of Jesus is a little different. He was always God so has no day to commerate his arrival in Heaven. His entrance to our life on earth is important for humanity. However we do not know what date it is. Nobody seriously thinks it was December 25. Can you give me one Catholic source that says that. The Church just decided to commerate it on a particula convient date for the Northern Hemisphere. It certainly is not a mid winter festival here in the Southern Hemisphere.You have given many dates when this started but it was long after Constantine and his Sun God.
The Easter Church still regards Epihany as more important. This commerates when Crhist manifested himself to the world.


you ask The answer is true.
However Did the Apostles break bread on other days? True of False.To Catholics this is the Mass.

I will leave it to Helice to say whether you are a liar.
However this statemernt proves you know nothing about the Catholic Church.

A Mass is not just a celebration of Easter. We do celebrate Easter Sunday with Masses as we do every day.On Good Friday we do not have a concecrated Mass but other cernomies. Once again the exact dates are not important. They are based on the Moon cycles and the Eastern church arrives at a different date.

You then go on to say the Catholics are responsible for all the elements added in this pagan world. The Christmas tree was populized by Martin Luther. The Hot cross bun is nothing like the unleaven bread used in lent. The host is not always in the form of a circle. Today we received a portion of the broken bread in many shapes.

Your seem to be more interested in attacking my church rather than defending your doctrines and Church.

I separated this part of the discussion from the other thread because I thought it deserved it's own topic.


-- Thinker, you have been on a rampage against the Catholic Church for some time now. If you have any substantial information or evidence to support your apparent dislike of the organization, then here is the place to post it. If you have any negative personal experiences with the Church and would like to share them, to perhaps enlighten us as to why you dislike it so, then this is also a good place to post.


We all know that the Catholic Church has been around for an awfully long time. Over the years, it has accommodated the people who make up the Catholic Church. So yes we have Crusades, Inquisitions, and Indulgences. But I think the only relevant issue at hand is what is practiced and believed now. The Catholic Church is the people who are Catholic NOW, and the teachings and saints they put forth as examples NOW; not some historical figure that lied or some future prophetic character who may or may not someday wrestle control of the organizational infrastructure and use it against God's people.

Got anything worthwhile to say that I won't have to edit away?

Thanks Tobias for seperating this topic. I think it is true that most of my post to Thinker have been a defence of my church. I am not defending some past institution but the Catholic church today. Like all institutions the Catholic Church has had evil men in the highest position of power. Yet it has also had many good men and women that have contributed greatly to all fields of enbeavour.

We are not perfect . Even today we have bad leaders in some areas. Our power is much weaker than in the past. This will mean we can do less harm but also less good. We are still the largest Christian dedomination in most countries. Yet when Chrstianity is discuss on this forums or in countries like the USA and Australia ,the Catholic Church is rarely included except as a negative. There are many ex Catholics here. Why did the leave? Was it because the Catholic Church in their day and place was evil. If this was so why are they still interested enough in religion to contribute to religious sites. Perhaps their earlier Catholic upbringing did make them think about religion buit in a more adult sense.

Not meaning any disrespect, Aus, but I think someday as a step towards maturity, we'll outgrow the need for conventional religion. Religion as an entity wants us dependent on it, because it validates its "raison d'etre". To me, religion is an ego thing. And our egos certainly don't want us having no need for it. That frightens it.

It's just like kids growing up... you surely hope that at some point they won't need you as in a parent/child relationship, but that they'll become more like friends, respecting each other.

Spirituality has the potential to unite Humanity, religion can only divide us.

This is something that seems to be a part of evolution, Windy, but evolution advances in fits and starts with a lot of dead ends along the way. Looking back at the development and history of religion shows this to be true. It won't happen our time, but I do believe individual spirituality will ultimately win out.

aus, there are a lot of former Catholics here, yes. And there are a lot of Catholics here who are able to live the religion without practicing its formal rites.

I was raised Catholic, was married in the Church and had my daughter baptised in the Church. Through a series of 'unfortunate events,' I came to the conclusion that, since a church is a church when two or more people meet in fellowship, I could do that every day without a Church.

I still consider myself a Catholic, however.

I used to go to a Catholic Church but I alway's had a problem with certain aspects of the Catholic Church ( But not the Church as a whole).

I really had a problem with the child sex abuse problem within the Catholic Church and the way they tried to cover it up.

That being said, no church or denomination is perfect, and I know that the Catholic Church is not the only one to have it's share of scandals.

I just think that any church , all of our Churches ( of all religions ) should serve the people better, simple as that.

I think the problem we have here is definitions. What do we mean by the Catholic Church.? Does it mean we support the Pope, our Bishop or pries?
Does it mean we support all polices of the Church.

Well if this was the case few could say they support the Catholic Church in this way. I do not liker many things the present Pope Benedict has done. I prefer Pope John Paul 2 or Pope John 23rd.
However the church is not a democracy and we do not get a vote for the Pope.However if the Pope is very bad we can either ignore him or leave.
According to Vatican Council 2 we must follow our conscience.

I could say similar things about my local Bishop or priest.We can always change parishes or even diocese and many people do this today.
As Lizabeth states Leaving a parish does not mean you ceased to be a Catholic. It is sad you can not find another parish where you can enjoy fellowship.However in the end being a Catholic is not just going to a particular church.

In the end the catholic Church we support is an institution that we believe does more god than harm. It has several key doctrines which members accept. However we do not have to accept political or social policies.

Wind Dancer said The word religion means rules. This may be an ego thing we those who impose the rules. However I doubt there is anyone in the Catholic Church today who could impose rules for others but not accept rules for themselves. For those who obey rules surely this is the oppposite to Ego. To decide you are above rules is to me the ultimate display of ego.

Myrddin aruement that religion is different to spiritualism also depends on definition. To me Religion is spiritualism with rules. If you think you can be spiritual without rules I am doubtful but try it anyway

Sleek Phamton Mystic I have also
What you doing about it depends on your atitude and conscience. In some cases you can try to fight it from inside. This is hard and I have stop going to parish councils when I could not make progress.

However I can still write about these problems. At the moment I am very critical of Catholic schools ans have said so in my website.
I also left a Church poltical party and fought against it for most of my life.This is also explain in my web site Aus22.bigblog.com.au

However these things do not stop me being a Catholic as explained in my earlier reply.